Aug 12, 2024
Welcome to "Victors in Grad School," a podcast where we engagein enlightening conversations with students, alumni, and experts touncover what it takes to excel in graduate school. Hosted by Dr.Christopher Lewis, the podcast is a valuable resource for anyonecontemplating, currently enrolled in, or nearing the completion oftheir graduate studies. In a recent episode, Dr. Lewis had thepleasure of hosting KaylaBueby, a Clinical Assistant Professor andPracticum Education Coordinator at the University of MichiganFlint. Kayla shared her transformative journey through variousstages of her academic career, from her Bachelor's in Social Work(BSW) to her Master's in Social Work (MSW), and even a postgraduatecertificate in Business Administration.
Understandingthe Importance of Graduate Education
Graduate education is often a journey filled with numeroustransitions and challenges. These changes could range from shiftsin self-perception to evolving learning methodologies. Dr. Lewisemphasizes that graduate school is a unique journey that requirescomprehensive preparation to ensure success. The goal of thepodcast is to aid students at various stages of their graduateeducation by bringing in guests who have successfully navigatedthis journey and are willing to share their wisdom.
The InitialTransition: From BSW to MSW
Kayla Bueby began her academic climb at Saginaw Valley StateUniversity, where she earned her BSW. She then transitioned toMichigan State University for her MSW. When asked about the motivesbehind her decision to pursue an MSW, Kayla mentioned the definingrole her undergraduate faculty played. They provided her withclarity about the importance of advanced degrees in the field ofsocial work, especially for those aiming to become mental healththerapists. She knew that a master's degree was a crucial steppingstone to achieving her career goals, and this understanding cameearly in her bachelor's program, largely due to the guidance shereceived from her mentors.
NavigatingGraduate School Choices
Choosing a graduate school is no small feat, and Kayla conductedrigorous research to identify the best MSW programs available. Sheacknowledged the pivotal role that professional organizations likethe National Association of Social Workers (NASW) played in hersearch process. By joining NASW as a student member, she gainedaccess to a wealth of resources, continuing educationopportunities, and crucial insights into the hot topics and futuredirections in the field of social work. This experience wasinstrumental in her decision to attend Michigan State University,which offered a specialized trauma-informed care certificate aspart of their MSW program.
The Unexpected Yet Beneficial Addition of Business Knowledge Ina fascinating twist, Kayla didn't stop at her MSW. She venturedinto the realm of business by earning a postgraduate certificate inBusiness Administration and Management. Initially intrigued by thepossibility of blending social work with business, she aimed for anMBA but settled on the certificate after realizing that herstrengths did not align perfectly with certain business courseslike accounting. Despite these challenges, the experience wasinvaluable, and the knowledge she gained has continued to benefither career.
Coping withthe Realities of Graduate Life
As someone who has worked extensively with both undergraduateand graduate students, Kayla shared valuable insights into copingwith the multifaceted challenges of graduate life. Time management,she pointed out, is a universal stressor among graduate studentswho often juggle school, work, and personal responsibilities. Sheadvocated for a customized approach to time management,highlighting the importance of finding what works best for anindividual's unique circ*mstances.
Kayla also stressed the importance of leveraging availableresources for mental health support. For instance, institutionslike the University of Michigan Flint offer free counseling andpsychological services to students, including remote options.Utilizing these resources can make a substantial difference in astudent's overall well-being and academic performance.
Transitioningto a Faculty Role: A Full-Circle Moment
Kayla's journey came full circle as she transitioned from anadministrative role to a faculty position. She is particularlyexcited about the launch of the new MSW program at the Universityof Michigan Flint. Having transitioned multiple times herself, shenow aims to be the empathetic, knowledgeable guide for her studentsthat she once sought in her mentors. She hopes to provide herstudents with the skills and empathy needed to navigate thecomplexities of real-world social work.
Final Tips forAspiring Graduate Students
In wrapping up, Kayla shared some critical advice for thoseconsidering graduate education: "Start with the end in mind." It'sessential to have a clear understanding of your career goals and toensure that the graduate program you choose aligns well with thoseobjectives. Don't hesitate to reach out to faculty, programdirectors, and current students to gather as much information aspossible. This proactive approach can help ensure that you makeinformed decisions that will set you on the path to a rewardingprofessional life.
Graduate school is a demanding but incredibly rewarding journey.By leveraging the experiences and insights of those who havesuccessfully navigated this path, like Kayla Bueby, future studentscan better prepare themselves for the challenges and opportunitiesthat lie ahead.
For more insights and tips on navigating graduate education,tune into "Victors in GradSchool" and embark on your own journey tosuccess.
TRANSCRIPT
Dr.Christopher Lewis [00:00:01]:
Welcome to the victors in grad school, where we have conversationswith students, alumni, and experts about what it takes to findsuccess in graduate school.
Dr.Christopher Lewis [00:00:11]:
Welcome back to Victor's in Grad School. I'm your host, doctorChristopher Lewis, director of graduate programs at the Universityof Michigan Flint. Really excited to have you back again this week.This week as always, we are on a journey together. I say that everyweek, but it's so true that you are thinking about graduate school.You're here because you're thinking about graduate school, And youmight be just at that first inkling where you think, maybe I needto continue my education. You might be in graduate school, or youmight be looking at the light at the end of the tunnel where you'resaying, I'm almost done. Almost ready for taking this graduateeducation to the next step and moving into a new career area orexpanding in the current career that you're in.
Dr.Christopher Lewis [00:00:55]:
No matter where you are, you are on a journey. And as you gothrough this graduate school experience, you're going to be goingthrough a lot of changes, a lot of changes in yourself, changes inthe way that you learn, changes in the way that you are looking atyourself as an employee, as a student, as a individual. So it'sreally important that you do what you can to prepare yourself, toprepare yourself for the work that you're going to be doingthroughout your graduate school journey. And that's what this showis all about. This show is all about helping you to find ways inwhich you can find success in that graduate school journey. That'swhy every week I bring you different guests, different people thatcan help you do just that. And I love being able to bring you thesedifferent people that have had these different experiences becausethey have gone before you. They have gone.
Dr.Christopher Lewis [00:01:50]:
They have gotten a graduate degree. They've been successful, andthey're sharing that experience with you today. Today, we've gotanother great guest with us. Kayla Bubi is with us today, andKayla is a clinical assistant professor for our bfor the BSW and MSW programs here at the University of MichiganFlint. She's also the practicum education coordinator for thoseprograms as well. We're gonna be talking to her about her ownexperience going through graduate school herself and learning alongthe way. Really excited to have her here. Kayla, thanks so much forbeing here.
Kayla Bueby[00:02:22]:
Thank you for having me.
Dr.Christopher Lewis [00:02:23]:
It is my pleasure having you here today. I love being able to bringpeople in to be able to talk about their different experiences, toshare those experiences and help people along the way. 1st andforemost, one of the things that I love doing is turning the clockback in time. And I wanna go back a few years. I wanna go backbecause I know that you did your undergraduate work at SaginawValley State University where you got your BSW, your bachelor ofsocial work. And after that, you went on to get an MSW, a master ofsocial work at Michigan State University. So let's first talk aboutthat first transition. And I would love to kind of go into yourmind and say to yourself, Kate, what were the reasons that youchose that you wanted to continue on in getting going from the BSWto the MSW?
Kayla Bueby[00:03:07]:
Yeah. That's a great question. My my BSW experience at SaginawValley was wonderful. And in that program, I learned so much aboutthe particulars of each of the degrees. So in certain professions,your degree means a lot in terms of what you're able to do. And insocial work, that's very true. So I had the goal of becoming amental health therapist and becoming a clinician, and I knew Ineeded to achieve a master's degree and earn a master's degree inorder to do that. And I had wonderful faculty that helped meunderstand that path and prepare me for what was next so that Iknew very early on in my bachelor's degree program that that wasthe direction that I was heading in.
Kayla Bueby[00:03:48]:
That was incredibly helpful. So in a social work degree program,the job that you want to do has a ton of bearing on what level ofdegree you need, and that was made so clear to me early on, and Ireally appreciated that. So that's how I ended up knowing that Iwanted to continue on with my master's degree education very earlyon in my bachelor's education.
Dr.Christopher Lewis [00:04:11]:
As you learn that and you were talking to your faculty mentors oradvisors or others that were saying to you, okay, you wanna dothis, you've gotta get this. As you were starting to prepare forthat next step, as you were going through that BSW, I'm sure youhad to start doing some type of, let's say, reconnaissance, sometype of research to be able to look at the myriad of different MSWprograms that were out there. And there are quite a few in thestate of Michigan, but there's also many others across the nation.And I'm sure you had many opportunities. You could have gone toalmost any school that you had wanted to. You chose to go toMichigan State University. Talk to me about that decision makingprocess, that research that you did for yourself. And why did youultimately decide to attend Michigan State University?
Kayla Bueby[00:05:00]:
Knowing early on in my BSW program that I was interested inpursuing an MSW was a monumental help in that regard. 1 of the froma social work perspective, one of the most impactful things that Idid was got connected to my professional membership organization,which in our profession is NASW or the National Association ofSocial Workers, specifically the Michigan chapter, and became astudent member. They offered some really wonderful student memberrate, and that got me connected to the practice professionalcommunity in a way that I had not been connected to before. Theyalso offered free or reduced cost continuing education offeringsand trainings that I was able to take part in as a student. Andwhen I did that, I got to know what the hot topics in theprofession were, where was our field heading, what did I need toknow about in order to be prepared to not only apply to gradschool, but be successful in grad school, and then ultimately besuccessful as a professional? And one of the things at the time,and certainly now still, that kept coming up was trauma informedcare. So I became very interested in trauma informed care, and thatwas something that was on my mind as I was looking for graduateprograms. On a personal note, I had always wanted to attendMichigan State University, so they were already very high on mylist. But they also had a trauma informed care certificate programthat I was able to take part in and was able to leave my graduateprogram with this additional certificate that has assisted me in mycareer ever since.
Kayla Bueby[00:06:31]:
So that was a huge part of that was understanding where your fieldcurrently is as a profession, what are the hot topics, what are thelatest and greatest evidence based approaches that you should knowabout as a student, and aligning that with a program that was ableto prepare me in that way throughout my master's program to walkinto the profession, already a step ahead or maybe 2 steps ahead ofsome of the other graduates in my field.
Dr.Christopher Lewis [00:06:54]:
You just talked about the fact that you learned a lot of thosepieces, the hot topics and things that were really important forsomeone going into the field to know by being a student member ofthe National Association. There's a number of national associationsthat are out there for a lot of different career areas. Talk to meabout how did you get involved in that national association, andwhat would you recommend to students that are going into a graduateprogram to do as they look at national associations, statewideassociations, things that are out there that they might be able tofind involvement in as well.
Kayla Bueby[00:07:34]:
I became aware of NASW and, to some extent, involved in it becausemy faculty members spoke so highly of that professionalorganization. They were truly mentors to me throughout the entirebachelor's degree process. And their feedback and their experienceswith the association were something that were that was very helpfulfor me to understand. And then they created opportunities,sometimes extracurricularly, but also sometimes within ourcurriculum, in order for the students to get connected to thatparticular particular organization. So for NASW, for instance,there's an annual legislative advocacy day that students are alwayswelcome to attend, where we're able to go to Lansing and talk tolegislators about social work specific policies that are being madeor being proposed. So those were wonderful ways for me to getconnected. As I mentioned, they also had a a discounted studentrate, which made it more affordable for me as a student who isliving on a very limited income And many professional organizationsoffer something similar to make that more accessible to folks whoare spending lots of money already on their education, books, andeverything else that they might have going on. So I woulddefinitely encourage students to ask faculty what professionalorganizations are they familiar with, have they found value in, arethey members of where social work is pretty cut and dry.
Kayla Bueby[00:08:56]:
NASW is our ultimate professional association, but some professionsmay have multiple. And so it's worth asking your faculty what theymight recommend or what their experiences have been with thoseorganizations if there are multiple.
Dr.Christopher Lewis [00:09:10]:
Now I know that you ended up getting another degree outside of theBSW and the MSW, and that was a postgraduate business certificatein business administration and management. And a very differentarea of study in comparison to what you study for your bachelor'sand master's. And for those of you that don't know, a graduatecertificate tends to be a core group of courses that you take in aspecific targeted area. It might be 9 credits. It might be 12credits. You know, it's a specific number of courses in thattargeted area. So as I mentioned, Kayla, you decided to get acertificate in business administration and management. Talk to meabout that.And what made you decide that you wanted to focusand get a different type of experience in this way?
Kayla Bueby[00:09:59]:
Yeah. I think talking about the trauma informed care and traumainformed perspectives that I was interested in early on I also knewthat early on I was very interested in management, administration,and leadership within the social work profession as well.As astaff member at the Universityof Michigan Flint at the time,Iwas able to take advantageof a wonderful benefitthrough our institution that was able to support some of myeducational pursuits during that time. I was able to take advantageof a wonderful benefit through our institution that was able tosupport some of my educational pursuits during that time. And Idecided I wanted to initially explore an MBA. And joint MSW and MBAdegrees are not uncommon. They weren't back then, and they aren'tuncommon now, because a lot of social workers do end up in process,and so I ended up ending that my time with that program a littlebit early, but was able to complete that post master's certificate.Although not knowledge from those courses that I was able to take,and the faculty were wonderful. I will be the 1st person to say Iam not the strongest when it comes to accounting, when it comes tothe books, when it comes to the number side of businessadministration. And countless times when I had questions, facultywere a if I had something that I needed in order to besuccessful.
Kayla Bueby[00:11:29]:
So I really appreciated my time in that program, and it's continuedyears later to serve me very well. And I appreciate the opportunitythat I was afforded to be able to access that education aswell.
Dr.Christopher Lewis [00:11:41]:
Now with your bachelor's to master's, your master's to certificateto certificate, there's always transitions when you enter intodifferent programs. How you were taught in your MSW is gonna bedifferent than how you were taught in your business classes, Andyou have to be able to maneuver and manage those transitions to besuccessful in graduate school itself. So what did you have to do ineach of those degree settings to be able to set yourself up forsuccess? And what did you have to do to maintain your successthroughout that journey through those different programs?
Kayla Bueby[00:12:14]:
There are big differences between each of those programs. And oneof the things that I wish I would have maybe done differently orbeen a little bit stronger in doing was understanding that therewas no way that I could know before I started those programsexactly what the differences would have been. And I held myself tothe standard, this very standard of having to know what it wasgonna be like before I even experienced it. That caused me a lot ofstress. It caused a lot of anxiety, and it caused a lot ofconfusion for me. Whereas if I would have taken the learnerapproach and said, you know what? I can't possibly know what thisis gonna be like, and that's okay. I'm not supposed to know. I'msupposed to learn what this is going to be.
Kayla Bueby[00:12:56]:
I think that would have left me open to learning more about whatthe experience really would be like instead of what I thought itmight be like. And in all of those circ*mstances, as you mentioned,it was a very different experience. The thing that I did to sustainwas ask questions because I realized that especially when youcontinue on to a graduate level education, professors areincredibly invested in your success, or at least that was myexperience, especially at U of M Flint. And I they wanted me to askquestions. They were interested in the questions that I had. Therewas no silly question to them, especially as somebody coming from adifferent discipline into the business side of things inparticular. I had many questions. How what is the culture of thistype of profession? How are things typically done? What parallelsmight I be able to find between the 2? And they were veryinterested in discussing that.
Kayla Bueby[00:13:51]:
And there are times where, especially even with an MSW degree, youdon't necessarily have to have a bachelor's degree to go into that.And so there are plenty of graduate programs where you don'tnecessarily need to have one particular degree to go into thatadvanced level degree, and you might find yourself in a similarsituation where you're trying to find the parallels. You're you'retrying to see how those two worlds blend together, and I stronglyrecommend leaning on faculty members and your peers maybe who havesome experience to really help you integrate your knowledge, whichis valuable, into one cohesive educational experience. It'sdifficult. So understanding that it's going to be a process andthat you're not gonna know everything early on, and that that'sokay, is a big mindset shift that, as I mentioned, I wish I wouldhave adopted a little bit earlier in my journey.
Dr.Christopher Lewis [00:14:39]:
Now I know that you said that going into the MSW, you wereinterested in trauma informed care. And pretty quickly aftergetting that MSW, you transitioned into some working in highereducation after doing some community based type of work as well.But a lot of your career has really been focused in on working inhigher education and working with students. So you have aninteresting perspective in that regard of being able to work withstudents in many different aspects, graduate students,undergraduate students. I would love your perspective, especiallywith the fact that for a number of years, you worked in thecounseling in the counseling area within a college environment andworking with students in that capacity. Could you talk to me alittle bit about what you learned along the way in working with,we'll say, graduate students in some of the big stressors, some ofthe things that they were learning with, and some of the thingsthat you might have shared with them to help them to maneuver thosesituations to be able to come out stronger in the end?
Kayla Bueby[00:15:43]:
Yeah. I think, by and large, one of the common threads withgraduate students when I was working in the counseling office, thatwas a stressor for all of them was, I have a life outside of this.And not just a life, but I might have children. I might have familythat I'm taking care of. I might have a full time job. I have amortgage. I have car notes to pay. There's lots of life happeningoutside of graduate school, especially when we have students thatare coming to us who have made who have already spent timeachieving a bachelor's degree or 2 or 3.
Kayla Bueby[00:16:15]:
And then they're also a a person first, and they're coming to uswith this incredible amount of life experience. Even if they'reright out of undergraduate, they still have more responsibilities,and their life is more complex than it was right out of highschool. You can imagine how much more complex it gets if you'rebringing somebody in who's maybe a decade, 2, or 3 removed from abachelor's degree program. So navigating the complexities ofmanaging time was a huge theme in those conversations. And I thinkwhile there are some general tips that can be helpful foreverybody, what you have to remember is that those general tipsweren't designed with you in mind specifically. You have to takethose general tips, like having an organized system for managingyour time, whether that's a physical planner, a Google Calendar, aGoogle Doc, whatever that might be for you. You have to make itwork for your life. So one of the common things I talked about,especially with some of our students who had a long commute ormaybe they had children and they were driving around quite a bit,was thinking about how do we make your learning more appropriatefor your style.
Kayla Bueby[00:17:20]:
So our audiobook's something we can we can switch to for you. Andso that you have the opportunity to listen while you're driving andreally double or triple dipping on the time that you already areusing for something else. How can we make this a better experiencefor you? So really, I think taking the general advice of good timemanagement, staying organized, studying on a regular basis, butmaking sure that you understand that it can't copy and paste. Youhave to make that tailored for your individual experience to makeit worthwhile. And not everything's gonna work for you. That'sokay. The goal is to find what does, And that takes some trial anderror in the process. The other big piece of that too was, as aresult of that high level of stress, it's a breeding ground foradditional mental health concerns.
Kayla Bueby[00:18:05]:
And so, when that happens, being able to access the resources thatare available to you are incredibly, incredibly important, andknowing about what resources are available to you. So at theUniversity of Michigan Flint, our counseling office, we refer to asCAPS, Counseling and Psychological Services, is completely free forall undergraduate and graduate students. And there are remoteoptions available for connections. You do not have to be in theFlint community or the Genesee County area to connect in personwith a licensed clinician. That is part of the package of you beinga student here. It was something that at my respectiveinstitutions, both at the bachelor's and the master's level, I tookadvantage of as a student. It was incredibly helpful. So do not atall be afraid to ask for help.
Kayla Bueby[00:18:45]:
Many of the students absolutely asking for help. But if you'resomebody who's considering it, please know that it is absolutelyokay. It is very much supported and it can make a huge differencein your educational career to get support for your mental healthand well-being throughout.
Dr.Christopher Lewis [00:19:06]:
Great tips, and I really appreciate you sharing those. Now you'vealso transitioned now to working on the faculty side, and you'vemoved from being in an administrative role to now being in a fullyeducational role, being working with students that are in both theBSW and MSW programs. Talk to me about this transition for you andnow what you're hoping to be able to do to be able to work withadditional graduate students because you have a new MSW programthat's starting this fall and what you hope to bring to thosestudents.
Kayla Bueby[00:19:40]:
Yeah. So, again, on my list of things I wanted to do was to teachone day. This is part of the reason I went into social work becausethere are so many different avenues for career exploration anddifferent topics, different areas of work. So I'm so excited tohave transitioned into this role and have such a passion for highereducation. And this role, while it does involve instructional time,I'm predominantly administrative still and managing our practicumeducation program. So that strength really comes out in that regardand it's a great fit. I'm so excited about our MSW program coming.This is something that has been talked about for a long time.
Kayla Bueby[00:20:13]:
We have a lot of graduates of our program that are very excitedabout it and members of our Flint community. I'm so excited to tryto give our students at the MSW level, and really at every everylevel, but certainly at the MSW level, the information that I wishI would have had at that time. An empathic listening ear, aprofessor that feels and I did have some of this, but to continueto give them things like a professor that feels like a real person,a professor that understands and has real world clinical experiencein the social and understands when we get those really graysituations that come up or a huge ethical dilemma that might besomething we need to consider. And what do you do in thatsituation? There's a lot of hard questions in social work, andstudents need to feel like they have somebody within their programas a faculty member that they can talk to about that and feelcomfortable not knowing and be feeling okay, being vulnerableenough to ask questions about that. So as an educator, I'm reallyhoping that that can that's something that shines through. Thatalso is something I hope that shines through in our practicumeducation program as we really start to prepare students in theirinternship experience for what real life social work really lookslike. Bringing the textbook to life, really putting students insituations to say, this is what it can be like day to day. How dowe handle that? How do we make sure we're operating in an ethicalmanner? And how do we have really difficult conversations aboutthings that might come up? In social work, in particular, it's notjust the ethical dilemmas, it's not just other concerns in thatregard, but the professional use of self and social work ishuge.
Kayla Bueby[00:21:53]:
And we all come to all of our professions with different biases,different perspectives, understandings of the world, and being ableto self reflect is a huge piece of the social work process inbecoming a professional. And if I can be part of that process forsomebody and helping them self reflect without judgment or shameand helping them become a better professional in the future for theclients they'll serve, That ripple effect is something that I'mvery much interested in being a part of, and I'm excited aboutpreparing our students for just that.
Dr.Christopher Lewis [00:22:23]:
Now you've given a lot of piece of advice today, things that you'velearned along the way. And I guess as you think back to your owngraduate school journey, what are some other tips that you mightwant to give to others considering graduate education that wouldhelp them find success sooner?
Kayla Bueby[00:22:38]:
With graduate education, you really have to start with the end inmind. And by that, I mean, get very serious and give some veryhonest thought to what you do with your career. And the reason Isay that is because when you get into a graduate education space,oftentimes, the degree that you're looking for needs to align withthat. I've heard stories, unfortunately, of students who have gonethrough multiple degree programs, including graduate degrees, andthen realize, oh gosh. This did not prepare me in the way that Iwanted to, or this isn't what I thought it was going to be. Do thatresearch about what you want to do on a day to day basis long afteryou are out of school, And make sure that the programs that you arelooking at will be able to support you in those endeavors. I wouldhate for anybody to be in a position where they didn't fullyunderstand the career that they were looking to get into or didn'tfully understand the requirements of achieving the career that theydesperately wanted to be a part of. That is something that is socritical here.
Kayla Bueby[00:23:37]:
I know that that, especially in the social work world, was a veryreal conversation that many of the students in my cohort and mypeers had because oftentimes folks felt like they just had to getan MSW because everybody else was doing that. And the reality is isthat some careers in social work do not require an MSW, and you'llbe spending a lot of time, money, and energy getting a degree thatyou don't necessarily need. Now that being said, there are a lot ofcareers in the social work field that do require an MSW. And so youwanna be aware of being the social work profession and others, whatdo you need to get you where you need to be? And how do you thenfind a school that they can get that can give that to you? Do notbe afraid to email those professors, those program directors aheadof time and say, this is what I'm looking for. How can your programprepare me for this? And make sure that you get some very honestanswers from them, so that you can make the decisions that you needto make, to make sure that you get the career and the educationthat you're looking for and hoping for that will hopefully prepareyou for the rest of your professional life.
Dr.Christopher Lewis [00:24:39]:
Well, Kayla, I just wanna say thank you. Thank you for sharing yourjourney today. Good luck on the start of the new MSW at U of MFlint, and I truly wish you all the best.
Kayla Bueby[00:24:50]:
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Dr.Christopher Lewis [00:24:51]:
The University of Michigan Flint has a full array of masters anddoctorate programs if you are interested in continuing youreducation. Whether you're looking for in person or online learningoptions, the University of Michigan Flint has programs that willmeet your needs. For more information on any of our graduateprograms, visit umflint.edu/graduateprogramsto find out more. Thanks again for spending time with me as youprepare to be a victor in grad school. I look forward to speakingwith you again soon as we embark together on your graduate schooljourney. If you have any questions or want to reach out, email meat flintgradoffice@umflint.edu.
